[Beowulf] Hacked MBs It was only a matter of time

[Douglas Eadline]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

(limited free articles)

First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?

[Jeff Johnson]

Answer to #3 is SuperMicro. This morning Charles finds himself up s___creek
without a paddle. Question is were they setup by a component supplier or is
there someone compromised inside SMCI?

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
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High-Performance Computing / Lustre Filesystems / Scale-out Storage

[Andrew Latham]

1. Everyone has Supermicro stuff somewhere (important note that the attack
could have been any brand with majority share so replace with
$popularvendor)
2. Supermicro makes embedded boards too
3. It is safe to assume the worst at all times and run a honeypot on vlan1
and limit new outbound connections. This is true of software and hardware.

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
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[Ellis H. Wilson III]

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

Key snippet:
"The illicit chips could do all this because they were connected to the
baseboard management controller, a kind of superchip that administrators
use to remotely log in to problematic servers, giving them access to the
most sensitive code even on machines that have crashed or are turned off."

My take-away:
This will only impact systems where there is a route between the wider
world and the IPMI ports on your servers. That's an extremely terrible
practice anyhow since IPMI isn't the most secure protocol, so the
solution should be to cordon off your IPMI network to a separate,
non-network-attached switch or leave it disconnected entirely if you
don't administer your machines in that way. If you've properly secured
that network you should be sufficiently guarded at least from an outside
intruder having levers into your system. Rogue chips on your boards
could of course always impact the system at some future date in a
pre-programmed way, but I know of no way to guard against that kind of
an attack short of vetting each and every board under suspicion on a
chip-by-chip basis.

Best,

ellis

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www.ellisv3.com
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[Jeff Johnson]

I respectfully disagree. The BMCs in modern server designs are plumbed to
every onboard network interface on the motherboard. So it’s not just a
matter of the “dedicated management port”. The chip would have access to
every onboard LAN. If any network was routable to the outside it would be
potentially be able to engage in its designed activities.

While many HPC environments are walled gardens this chip scandal would
impact “HPC in the cloud” activities.

Just my $.02 worth

Post by Ellis H. Wilson III
This will only impact systems where there is a route between the wider
world and the IPMI ports on your servers.

--
------------------------------
Jeff Johnson
Co-Founder
Aeon Computing

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www.aeoncomputing.com
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m: 619-204-9061

4170 Morena Boulevard, Suite C - San Diego, CA 92117

High-Performance Computing / Lustre Filesystems / Scale-out Storage

[John Hearns via Beowulf]

I must have installed thousands of Supermicro servers....
My current status - hiding behind the sofa with the light off waiting
for MI${N} to ring the doorbell.

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 at 16:18, Jeff Johnson

I respectfully disagree. The BMCs in modern server designs are plumbed to every onboard network interface on the motherboard. So it’s not just a matter of the “dedicated management port”. The chip would have access to every onboard LAN. If any network was routable to the outside it would be potentially be able to engage in its designed activities.
While many HPC environments are walled gardens this chip scandal would impact “HPC in the cloud” activities.
Just my $.02 worth

Post by Ellis H. Wilson III
This will only impact systems where there is a route between the wider
world and the IPMI ports on your servers.

--
------------------------------
Jeff Johnson
Co-Founder
Aeon Computing
www.aeoncomputing.com
t: 858-412-3810 x1001 f: 858-412-3845
m: 619-204-9061
4170 Morena Boulevard, Suite C - San Diego, CA 92117
High-Performance Computing / Lustre Filesystems / Scale-out Storage
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[Ellis H. Wilson III]

Post by Jeff Johnson
I respectfully disagree. The BMCs in modern server designs are plumbed
to every onboard network interface on the motherboard. So it’s not just
a matter of the “dedicated management port”. The chip would have access
to every onboard LAN. If any network was routable to the outside it
would be potentially be able to engage in its designed activities >
While many HPC environments are walled gardens this chip scandal would
impact “HPC in the cloud” activities.
Just my $.02 worth

Fair points Jeff -- a colleague of mine actually just raised that point
before I saw your email. It seems some, but not most, of the servers we
were looking at have such an interconnected BMC.

This design choice does not appear (at least at first glance) to be
associated with age of the system. It's an unfortunate situation either
way. One would really like your BMC to be isolated as much as humanly
possible.

I do find it funny though in the article that the main actors are stuck
in a deny-loop. My cynicism meter is high today.

Best,

ellis

[John Hearns via Beowulf]

How does the data get "back to base" ?
I would encrypt it within an NTP or a DNS request - but that assumes
outgoing NTP/DNS is not firewalled off.
I guess just encrypted in an HTTP(s) payload makes sense - servers
make requests to all sorts of software repositories etc.

Post by Ellis H. Wilson III

Post by Jeff Johnson
I respectfully disagree. The BMCs in modern server designs are plumbed
to every onboard network interface on the motherboard. So it’s not just
a matter of the “dedicated management port”. The chip would have access
to every onboard LAN. If any network was routable to the outside it
would be potentially be able to engage in its designed activities >
While many HPC environments are walled gardens this chip scandal would
impact “HPC in the cloud” activities.
Just my $.02 worth

Fair points Jeff -- a colleague of mine actually just raised that point
before I saw your email. It seems some, but not most, of the servers we
were looking at have such an interconnected BMC.
This design choice does not appear (at least at first glance) to be
associated with age of the system. It's an unfortunate situation either
way. One would really like your BMC to be isolated as much as humanly
possible.
I do find it funny though in the article that the main actors are stuck
in a deny-loop. My cynicism meter is high today.
Best,
ellis
--
Ellis H. Wilson III, Ph.D.
www.ellisv3.com
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[Jeff Johnson]

If they could compromise potentially hundreds of thousands of servers they
could likely setup a seemingly legit site, like a CentOS mirror, and take
in data that looks legit.

Post by John Hearns via Beowulf
How does the data get "back to base" ?
I would encrypt it within an NTP or a DNS request - but that assumes
outgoing NTP/DNS is not firewalled off.
I guess just encrypted in an HTTP(s) payload makes sense - servers
make requests to all sorts of software repositories etc.

[Chris Dagdigian]

I think it's also safe to assume that activating the hardware implants
would be done only for extraordinarily high value targets as widespread
use would almost guarantee that someone would eventually notice, capture
and study the traffic no matter how well it was hidden and thus blow up
an incredibly expensive multi-year scheme.

I wonder given how widely the hardware was seeded if these things are
silent by default and only checkin to the C&C server when activated by
some secondary means like a weird broadcast packet or quickie port knock
or even some other super stealthy recon trigger

Post by John Hearns via Beowulf
How does the data get "back to base" ?
I would encrypt it within an NTP or a DNS request - but that assumes
outgoing NTP/DNS is not firewalled off.
I guess just encrypted in an HTTP(s) payload makes sense - servers
make requests to all sorts of software repositories etc.

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[Kilian Cavalotti]

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

I don't know, that Bloomberg piece seems to be lacking specific
technical details to be really credible. There's quite a lot of
skepticism being raised about those claims, and the Apple denial was
pretty adamant.

It sure seems all possible, but is it likely? To have dealt with my
share of issues with those manufacturers' BMC firmwares, I'd tend to
think they're quite busy making regular and documented functionality
properly work, before they can add almost-invisible chips that can
magically "alter the operating system’s core so it could accept
modifications [and] also contact computers controlled by the attackers
in search of further instructions and code".

So I'm wondering how much of this is non-technical journalists just
discovering what a BMC is.

Not saying that it's not true, but the whole story seriously needs
more technical details, other than what "former US intelligence
officials" said.

Cheers,

[Kilian Cavalotti]

For Ar's report on this:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/10/bloomberg-super-micro-motherboards-used-by-apple-amazon-contained-chinese-spy-chips/
"""
Super Micro, Apple, and Amazon all deny every part of the Bloomberg
story. Amazon says that it's untrue that "[Amazon Web Services] worked
with the FBI to investigate or provide data about malicious hardware;"
Apple writes that it is "not aware of any investigation by the FBI,"
and Super Micro similarly is "not aware of any investigation regarding
this topic." Apple suggests further that Bloomberg may be
misunderstanding the 2016 incident [1] in which a Super Micro server
with malware-infected firmware was found in Apple's design lab.

Apple's denial in particular is unusually verbose, addressing several
different parts of the Bloomberg report explicitly, and is a far cry
from the kind of vague denial that one might expect if the company
were subject to a government gag order preventing it from speaking
freely about the alleged hack.
"""
[1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/02/apple-axed-supermicro-servers-from-datacenters-because-of-bad-firmware-update/

Cheers,

[Jeff Johnson]

The denials by Amazon, Apple and Supermicro aren't surprising as all risk
losing consumer confidence, Amazon and Apple most of all. Unlike everyone
here, much of the public are technology neophytes and could be scared away
from things like Amazon purchases, ApplePay/iTunes and other e-commerce
transactions. A month away from the holiday shopping season, the downside
potential of a news story like this is significant.

My $.02 I doubt this story could/would be generated out of thin air. It was
likely leaked. It will be days or weeks before any details or scope emerges
so until then denials and conjecture abound.



On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:19 AM Kilian Cavalotti <

Post by Kilian Cavalotti
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/10/bloomberg-super-micro-motherboards-used-by-apple-amazon-contained-chinese-spy-chips/
"""
Super Micro, Apple, and Amazon all deny every part of the Bloomberg
story. Amazon says that it's untrue that "[Amazon Web Services] worked
with the FBI to investigate or provide data about malicious hardware;"
Apple writes that it is "not aware of any investigation by the FBI,"
and Super Micro similarly is "not aware of any investigation regarding
this topic." Apple suggests further that Bloomberg may be
misunderstanding the 2016 incident [1] in which a Super Micro server
with malware-infected firmware was found in Apple's design lab.
Apple's denial in particular is unusually verbose, addressing several
different parts of the Bloomberg report explicitly, and is a far cry
from the kind of vague denial that one might expect if the company
were subject to a government gag order preventing it from speaking
freely about the alleged hack.
"""
[1]
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/02/apple-axed-supermicro-servers-from-datacenters-because-of-bad-firmware-update/
Cheers,
--
Kilian
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Co-Founder
Aeon Computing

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m: 619-204-9061

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High-Performance Computing / Lustre Filesystems / Scale-out Storage

[David Mathog]

If the extra chip was added to the original design I wonder how hard it
would be to cut it back out again? Admittedly if this amounts to much
more than "crush it with a pair of needlenose pliers" or "place a
soldering iron on it for 20 seconds" it would be impractical and likely
not economical to repair these motherboards. Removing it with a hot air
workstation (it must be surface mounted) would likely restore the
motherboard to its original design, but doing so without damaging any of
the surrounding components on a typical tightly packed motherboard might
be very difficult.

This also suggests that manufacturers are going to have to start
carefully auditing products coming in from overseas factories to verify
that they have not diverged in unexpected ways. That is going to be
really hard because while this was actually an extra component, the
obvious next step is to add the function to an existing chip, so the
board would not appear externally to be any different. To find that
sort of change they would have to cut open the chip packages and review
the chips in an EM. And the counter measure would be to only sprinkle
in a few contaminated chips instead of installing them everywhere.

On balance this seems like an excellent reason to ban the importation of
"must be trusted" components from China. (Makes me wonder about
products from that new Foxconn plant in Wisconsin too.) For once the
Trump administration could call "national security" when implementing a
policy like that and actually have a good case.

Regards,

David Mathog
***@caltech.edu
Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech
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[Andrew Latham]

And news directly from Supermicro
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
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[John Hearns via Beowulf]

Thankyou to James Cuff for linking to The Register's article :
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

And news directly from Supermicro https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
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[Jonathan Engwall]

That is a tiny capacitor that sits on your motherboard with a very thin glue. You practically need a microscope to move one, and there are hundreds of them on each board. So which one is it? Maybe you can just scrape it off.
Buy there is another problem: OEM. That means an outside builder, Supermicro perhaps built your motherboard.
And, why tell this story 3 years later?
Buy in the subject of removing it, a capacitor reads a tiny stream of electricity and opens its hate at a determined voltage, correct? That sets off another capacitor and so on until what exactly happens?

On October 4, 2018, at 7:08 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf <***@beowulf.org> wrote:

Thankyou to James Cuff for linking to The Register's article :
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

And news directly from Supermicro https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
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[Douglas Eadline]

From a technology standpoint, this is very interesting. For me
the bigger picture is trusting complex things. This is not new,
in 1984 Ken Thompson brought up software "bugging"

http://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack

Funny, many of my non-geek friends
are surprised at my skepticism and mistrust of
many things digital.

--
Doug

Post by Jonathan Engwall
That is a tiny capacitor that sits on your motherboard with a very thin
glue. You practically need a microscope to move one, and there are
hundreds of them on each board. So which one is it? Maybe you can just
scrape it off.
Buy there is another problem: OEM. That means an outside builder,
Supermicro perhaps built your motherboard.
And, why tell this story 3 years later?
Buy in the subject of removing it, a capacitor reads a tiny stream of
electricity and opens its hate at a determined voltage, correct? That sets
off another capacitor and so on until what exactly happens?
On October 4, 2018, at 7:08 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

Post by Andrew Latham
And news directly from Supermicro
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
--
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[John Hearns via Beowulf]

Doug, you are Johnny English and I claim my five pounds.

The plot is that all HEr Majestys agents have been compromised as they
use digital devices.
Johnny English (aka Doug Eadline) must be brought out of retirement
due to using only analogue.
The lovelt red Aston Martin belongs to Rowan Atkinson, ad is chosen as
it has no digital ignition or ECU.

Post by Douglas Eadline
From a technology standpoint, this is very interesting. For me
the bigger picture is trusting complex things. This is not new,
in 1984 Ken Thompson brought up software "bugging"
http://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack
Funny, many of my non-geek friends
are surprised at my skepticism and mistrust of
many things digital.
--
Doug

Post by Jonathan Engwall
That is a tiny capacitor that sits on your motherboard with a very thin
glue. You practically need a microscope to move one, and there are
hundreds of them on each board. So which one is it? Maybe you can just
scrape it off.
Buy there is another problem: OEM. That means an outside builder,
Supermicro perhaps built your motherboard.
And, why tell this story 3 years later?
Buy in the subject of removing it, a capacitor reads a tiny stream of
electricity and opens its hate at a determined voltage, correct? That sets
off another capacitor and so on until what exactly happens?
On October 4, 2018, at 7:08 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

Post by Andrew Latham
And news directly from Supermicro
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
--
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[John Hearns via Beowulf]

你所有的基地都属于我们。

Post by John Hearns via Beowulf
Doug, you are Johnny English and I claim my five pounds.
http://youtu.be/-Qv6p6pTz5I
The plot is that all HEr Majestys agents have been compromised as they
use digital devices.
Johnny English (aka Doug Eadline) must be brought out of retirement
due to using only analogue.
The lovelt red Aston Martin belongs to Rowan Atkinson, ad is chosen as
it has no digital ignition or ECU.

Post by Douglas Eadline
From a technology standpoint, this is very interesting. For me
the bigger picture is trusting complex things. This is not new,
in 1984 Ken Thompson brought up software "bugging"
http://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack
Funny, many of my non-geek friends
are surprised at my skepticism and mistrust of
many things digital.
--
Doug

Post by Jonathan Engwall
That is a tiny capacitor that sits on your motherboard with a very thin
glue. You practically need a microscope to move one, and there are
hundreds of them on each board. So which one is it? Maybe you can just
scrape it off.
Buy there is another problem: OEM. That means an outside builder,
Supermicro perhaps built your motherboard.
And, why tell this story 3 years later?
Buy in the subject of removing it, a capacitor reads a tiny stream of
electricity and opens its hate at a determined voltage, correct? That sets
off another capacitor and so on until what exactly happens?
On October 4, 2018, at 7:08 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

Post by Andrew Latham
And news directly from Supermicro
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
--
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[Tony Brian Albers]

No, the green one John.

/tony

Post by John Hearns via Beowulf
你所有的基地都属于我们。

Post by John Hearns via Beowulf
Doug, you are Johnny English and I claim my five pounds.
http://youtu.be/-Qv6p6pTz5I
The plot is that all HEr Majestys agents have been compromised as they
use digital devices.
Johnny English (aka Doug Eadline) must be brought out of retirement
due to using only analogue.
The lovelt red Aston Martin belongs to Rowan Atkinson, ad is chosen as
it has no digital ignition or ECU.

Post by Douglas Eadline
From a technology standpoint, this is very interesting. For me
the bigger picture is trusting complex things.  This is not new,
in 1984 Ken Thompson brought up software "bugging"
http://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack
Funny, many of my non-geek friends
are surprised at my skepticism and mistrust of
many things digital.
--
Doug

Post by Jonathan Engwall
That is a tiny capacitor that sits on your motherboard with a very thin
glue. You practically need a microscope to move one, and there are
hundreds of them on each board. So which one is it? Maybe you can just
scrape it off.
Buy there is another problem: OEM. That means an outside
builder,
Supermicro perhaps built your motherboard.
And, why tell this story 3 years later?
Buy in the subject of removing it, a capacitor reads a tiny stream of
electricity and opens its hate at a determined voltage,
correct? That sets
off another capacitor and so on until what exactly happens?
On October 4, 2018, at 7:08 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

Post by Andrew Latham
And news directly from Supermicro
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press1
81004_Bloomberg.cfm
ine.org>

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-
hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-
top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
--
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[Douglas Eadline]

Ha! that is a pretty accurate description of how things
work in my world.

--
Doug

Post by John Hearns via Beowulf
Doug, you are Johnny English and I claim my five pounds.
http://youtu.be/-Qv6p6pTz5I
The plot is that all HEr Majestys agents have been compromised as they
use digital devices.
Johnny English (aka Doug Eadline) must be brought out of retirement
due to using only analogue.
The lovelt red Aston Martin belongs to Rowan Atkinson, ad is chosen as
it has no digital ignition or ECU.

Post by Douglas Eadline
From a technology standpoint, this is very interesting. For me
the bigger picture is trusting complex things. This is not new,
in 1984 Ken Thompson brought up software "bugging"
http://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack
Funny, many of my non-geek friends
are surprised at my skepticism and mistrust of
many things digital.
--
Doug

Post by Jonathan Engwall
That is a tiny capacitor that sits on your motherboard with a very

thin

Post by Jonathan Engwall
glue. You practically need a microscope to move one, and there are
hundreds of them on each board. So which one is it? Maybe you can just
scrape it off.
Buy there is another problem: OEM. That means an outside builder,
Supermicro perhaps built your motherboard.
And, why tell this story 3 years later?
Buy in the subject of removing it, a capacitor reads a tiny stream of
electricity and opens its hate at a determined voltage, correct? That

sets

Post by Jonathan Engwall
off another capacitor and so on until what exactly happens?
On October 4, 2018, at 7:08 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

Post by Andrew Latham
And news directly from Supermicro
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug
--
MailScanner: Clean
_______________________________________________
To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit
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Computing

Post by Jonathan Engwall

Post by Andrew Latham
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Post by Jonathan Engwall
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Computing

Post by Jonathan Engwall
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Doug
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[Fred Youhanaie]

So you can detect the implants using AI ...

https://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/computing/hardware/this-tech-would-have-spotted-the-secret-chinese-chip-in-seconds

All you need is a trustworthy computer for the AI computations!

Cheers,
Fred

Post by Douglas Eadline
From a technology standpoint, this is very interesting. For me
the bigger picture is trusting complex things. This is not new,
in 1984 Ken Thompson brought up software "bugging"
http://wiki.c2.com/?TheKenThompsonHack
Funny, many of my non-geek friends
are surprised at my skepticism and mistrust of
many things digital.
--
Doug

Post by Jonathan Engwall
That is a tiny capacitor that sits on your motherboard with a very thin
glue. You practically need a microscope to move one, and there are
hundreds of them on each board. So which one is it? Maybe you can just
scrape it off.
Buy there is another problem: OEM. That means an outside builder,
Supermicro perhaps built your motherboard.
And, why tell this story 3 years later?
Buy in the subject of removing it, a capacitor reads a tiny stream of
electricity and opens its hate at a determined voltage, correct? That sets
off another capacitor and so on until what exactly happens?
On October 4, 2018, at 7:08 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/supermicro_bloomberg/

Post by Andrew Latham
And news directly from Supermicro
https://www.supermicro.com/newsroom/pressreleases/2018/press181004_Bloomberg.cfm

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies
(limited free articles)
First question: So who has Supermicro motherboards?
Second question: Where else are these devices?
Third question: Who else is making/inserting these kind of devices?
--
Doug

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[Chris Samuel]

Post by Douglas Eadline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

So two weeks on and it looks like this wasn't real, and I've read somewhere
(though I can't find the reference now) that this isn't the first time for the
person who wrote that article. A lot of people wrote about how this sort
of attack doesn't really make sense, there are far easier ways to do this
sort of thing (nobbled BMC firmware probably being one of the easiest)
and without the problems of possibly thousands of SM boxes trying to
ping back to a CnC server to set off alarms in a host of companies.

This sums it up nicely..

https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1053102057245286401

Two weeks since Bloomberg claimed Supermicro servers were backdoored by Chinese spying chips.
No Evidence Whatsoever shows these claims real.
All companies angrily deny it to Congress.
Senior US intelligence including Rob Joyce refute it.
It’s time.
It’s over.
This is not true.